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NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

在 05-27-2011, 9:42 上午 由 Red Jazz 發表.第 13 篇回覆.
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  •  05-25-2011, 9:39 上午 383324

    • GTO_Andy is not online. Last active: 2021-11-17, 11:05 上午 GTO_Andy
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    NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

     http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/sports/basketball/players-accuse-nba-of-failing-to-bargain-in-good-faith.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

     

    The New York Times



  • May 24, 2011

    N.B.A. Union Fires First In Complaint To Labor Board

    The legal maneuvering in the N.B.A.’s labor battle began in earnest Tuesday, when the players union filed a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board, accusing league officials of failing to negotiate in good faith.

    The one-page complaint charges the N.B.A. with making “grossly regressive contract demands,” of failing to provide the union with critical financial data and with repeatedly threatening to lock out players in the absence of a new collective bargaining agreement.

    The N.B.A. immediately dismissed the complaint as having no merit and asserted that it has complied with federal labor laws.

    This is likely to be the first in a series of legal salvos as the N.B.A. and the players association try to break a 16-month stalemate. The current labor agreement, adopted in 2005, is set to expire June 30. There is little hope on either side that a lockout can be avoided.

    But the players’ complaint with the N.L.R.B. is, at least in part, an attempt to prevent the league from locking them out in July, said Gabe Feldman, the director of sports law at Tulane University, who called this “a pre-emptive strike.”

    He added, “I think the N.B.A. players are now looking for some tactic, some strategy, to give them leverage at the bargaining table.”

    The alternative would be for the union to decertify, as the N.F.L. players union did in March. Decertification opens the door for the players to sue the league on antitrust grounds, but it carries substantial risks. The union has laid the groundwork to decertify in the event of a lockout. But if the players win a favorable ruling from the N.L.R.B., they might avoid that path. The objective in both strategies is to force the league back to the negotiating table.

    “I think we’re likely to see the players try all possible weapons here, and this is just one weapon,” Feldman said of the N.L.R.B. complaint. “I think this is just the beginning of the labor battle.”

    The N.L.R.B. is known to move at a deliberate pace and, in Feldman’s view, is unlikely to issue a ruling before the collective bargaining agreement expires in six weeks.

    “But this is at least another weapon the players have at their disposal,” he said.

    N.B.A. officials claim the league is losing more than $300 million a year. They are seeking an overhaul of the economic system, including a 38 percent rollback in player salaries — amounting to about $800 million. Owners also want a hard salary cap to replace the current soft-cap system, and they want team payrolls reduced to $45 million, from $58 million.

    The players’ counterproposal would generally retain the current system, but with an offer to reduce their 57 percent guarantee of league revenues. Both parties consider the other’s proposal to be unworkable.

    League officials recently presented a modified offer in which the proposed cuts would be phased in over two years, rather than instituted immediately. The union scoffed at the offer.

    With no indication that either side will budge soon, the union filed its complaint, contending the N.B.A. has violated the National Labor Relations Act.

    In the one-page complaint, the union accuses the N.B.A. of making “harsh, inflexible and grossly regressive takeaway demands” without offering “appropriate tradeoffs”; “engaging in classic take-it-or-leave-it and surface bargaining” that is intended to provoke a lockout and “coerce” players into accepting the league’s proposal; failing to provide “relevant financial information”; “repeatedly threatening” to lock out the players; and “making demands and threats that are inherently destructive to the collective bargaining process.”

    League officials are also accused of bypassing the union to deal directly with players.

    The N.B.A. responded in a statement: “There is no merit to the charge filed today by the players association with the National Labor Relations Board, as we have complied — and will continue to comply — with all of our obligations under the federal labor laws. It will not distract us from our efforts to negotiate in good faith a new collective bargaining agreement with the players association.”


    DCSIMG
  •  05-25-2011, 11:52 上午 383355 in reply to 383324

    • J.F.J is not online. Last active: 10-31-2018, 12:24 下午 J.F.J
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    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    最好是別封館, 99年對雙方都是個慘痛的教訓. NBA也因此少了Kemp和Baker 2個球星!!

  •  05-25-2011, 12:00 下午 383360 in reply to 383355

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    J.F.J:
    最好是別封館, 99年對雙方都是個慘痛的教訓. NBA也因此少了Kemp和Baker 2個球星!!

    所以說西雅圖最慘了.....

  •  05-25-2011, 1:14 下午 383377 in reply to 383360

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    請問一下,如果要封館最快什麼時候開始

    會不會影響選秀,或球員交易

  •  05-25-2011, 1:22 下午 383379 in reply to 383377

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    oceion1108:

    請問一下,如果要封館最快什麼時候開始

    會不會影響選秀,或球員交易

    對啊!我也想知道,如果真的要封館,希望選秀、球員交易後在封。

     


    波神註定要成為傳奇。
  •  05-25-2011, 3:47 下午 383394 in reply to 383379

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    新的CBA必需在六月底前談定,剛好在選秀(6/23)之後,因此選秀不受影響

    談不定第一個受害的是夏季聯盟停辦,要是到開季前還談不定就會封館

    交易: 要交易請在六月底前完成

    簽FA: 原本是從7/1開始可以簽自由球員,但如果沒有新的CBA將依法無據,跟交易都會暫時凍結

    以聯盟的說法,上一季30隊有22隊虧錢,全NBA總赤字3億美金


  •  05-25-2011, 4:10 下午 383397 in reply to 383394

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    我認為

    聯盟絕對有虧損...資方當年是仗著喬丹的優勢才能狠撈一筆

    現在的情況和當年自然不同

    那怕是多幾個KOBE、LBJ...都不可能彌補喬神留下的缺口 

    而且資方給薪太多...再怎樣補錢都補不完(無怪乎球衣總是特別貴)

     

    大市場或許還撐得住

    小市場根本要他們去死的

    當然...也不能說「沒錢就不要組球隊」

    別忘了...這是"美國"職業籃球賽

    各州各城都有權利參賽。 

     

    所以要符合公平原則....就絕對要降價....而且要設定『硬性薪資上限』

    讓每一隊都有平等的權利去爭奪總冠軍

    有些隊就是不怕豪華稅...是否等於冠軍都是他們那些隊拿的? 

     

     

    但我也認為

    聯盟給的4500W的報價太低了...5000W以上範圍才是比較符合現在的水準

    當然...更別提6500W了...。 

     

     

    勞方也該好好想想

    自己大多數球員退休後...6成就破產

    是否是自己的問題?還是資方剝削?這顯而易見。


  •  05-25-2011, 4:23 下午 383399 in reply to 383397

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    s789321:

    勞方也該好好想想

    自己大多數球員退休後...6成就破產

    是否是自己的問題?還是資方剝削?這顯而易見。


    完全認同呀~

    很多人說雖然球員賺得多, 但開銷也大

    試問"開銷大"有時難道不是球員自己的問題?

    有誰強迫他們要花那麼多錢嗎? (有些球員賺的錢給我用, 都夠我吃一輩子了!)

  •  05-25-2011, 6:43 下午 383416 in reply to 383399

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    Grove Street:

    完全認同呀~

    很多人說雖然球員賺得多, 但開銷也大

    試問"開銷大"有時難道不是球員自己的問題?

    有誰強迫他們要花那麼多錢嗎? (有些球員賺的錢給我用, 都夠我吃一輩子了!)

    不只一輩子吧,好幾輩子都沒問題

    Mark Cuben被David Stern所罰的款數大概就夠我們花一輩子了 .. 

  •  05-25-2011, 9:38 下午 383434 in reply to 383394

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    Red Jazz:

    簽FA: 原本是從7/1開始可以簽自由球員,但如果沒有新的CBA將依法無據,跟交易都會暫時凍結

    現行的CBA中有七月暫停期(July Moratorium)

    通常是一個星期到十幾天

    在暫停期中無法簽自由球員也無法交易

    球隊只能簽下自己的首輪選秀

    過去兩年都是七月八日(美國時間)才能開始簽FA


    天佑台灣
  •  05-25-2011, 10:07 下午 383438 in reply to 383397

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    s789321:

    所以要符合公平原則....就絕對要降價....而且要設定『硬性薪資上限』

    讓每一隊都有平等的權利去爭奪總冠軍

    有些隊就是不怕豪華稅...是否等於冠軍都是他們那些隊拿的? 


    但我也認為

    聯盟給的4500W的報價太低了...5000W以上範圍才是比較符合現在的水準

    當然...更別提6500W了...。 

    4500萬的hard cap對NBPA是很難接受的

    做個簡單計算就知道

    本季全聯盟的總薪資是20億3787萬

    改成4500萬的hard cap全聯盟的總薪資最多13億5000萬

    兩者差了快7億

    等於是降薪超過30% 

    以最多450個球員來算的話

    每個球員平均最少要少拿153萬

    有很多球員的年薪還不到153萬

    而且實際面是大牌球員會比較不受影響

    B咖(800-1200)、C咖(400-800)、D咖(400以下)才是薪水掉最多的

    從之前湖人開給Kobe和Odom的合約就能了解

    球隊要省錢的時候永遠是先砍B咖、C咖、D咖的薪水

    這麼做只會擴大NBA的貧富差距

    讓NBA的薪資結構更加M型化

    如果NBA資方堅持要4500萬的hard cap

    那麼很有可能出現一個完整的封館球季

    也就是說下個NBA球季將是12-13球季

    我認為NBA資方該做的是縮小貧富差距、設法降低大牌球員的薪水

    例如對大鳥、中產設一些限制(讓原來的soft cap硬一點)

    調低豪華稅門檻、累進稅制的豪華稅

    廢除前一年薪水的105%的頂薪規定就能避免Kobe那種高達3000萬的年薪

    這些都能有效地降薪但是不至於引起過大的或大多數球員的反彈

    馬上就要改成hard cap顯然太操之過急

    就算要立即實施hard cap也不應該是4500萬這個數字

    現在這個數字改成hard cap

    或是4500萬的soft cap

    對NBPA來說肯定是比較能接受的


    天佑台灣
  •  05-26-2011, 5:30 下午 383635 in reply to 383438

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    擴大貧富差距

    資本主義下的產物阿



  •  05-27-2011, 4:27 上午 383750 in reply to 383635

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    但是以投資的角度來看

    老闆當然是只想花錢在能賺錢的球員身上

    不能賺錢的球員自然就沒有這麼高的投資意願

    以Kobe跟James的行情來說, 他們給聯盟所帶來的經濟效益絕對是3000萬美金的好幾倍

    老闆當然可以心甘情願燒三千萬在他們身上

    畢竟百分之八十的觀眾進場就是來看巨星打球的

    但是有些球員可能只是老闆為了滿足那些巨星而提昇球隊競爭力的狀態下得利

    有很多球員他們能為球隊帶來的經濟效益可能連他的薪水都沒辦法cover, 但是老闆還是為了幫那些天王巨星打造有競爭力的球隊而多燒錢

    就經濟效益來說, 這聯盟本身就是個M型社會, 球星主宰一切, 薪資的分佈老闆應該也會傾向於M型分布

    從資方之前提出的Franchise Tag的提案就可以看出端倪

    當然目前最大的問題還是雙方沒辦法談攏薪資分配的問題以及現行合約的金額也可能要縮水的議題

    我個人覺得所減現行合約金額的議題是勞方一定要堅持的一點, 這是資方自己要付的責任, 不能自己賠錢後就要球員自己減薪幫他們買單, 當初都是兩情相悅下簽的合約, 沒理由有任何合法依據來修改

    薪資分配問題單純就要看勞方有沒有意願在未來少拿一點, 如果願意的話, 當然還是要有差不多二到三個球季的時間, 來慢慢壓低hard cap的金額, 如果一開始就直接設在4500萬, 那的確雙方的確都吃不消, 畢竟已經有一堆球隊已經被每年超過5000萬的合約保住至少兩三年了, 要在一個暑假就直接進入新的hard cap規則是有點太強人所難

    如果球員不願意配合, 那他們是真的得很有把握他們在其他地方可以賺得差不多多, 畢竟以目前勞方的提案還是全世界薪水最優渥的籃球聯盟, 老闆們不怕封館, 因為大部分的老闆可以停止賠錢; 但是球員面臨封館, 那就是主要收入馬上停止, 這種損失可能比未來少拿錢還要淒慘 


    作宅男就像走在一條無間道上...一旦走下去...就沒辦法回頭作陽光男孩了...
  •  05-27-2011, 9:42 上午 383761 in reply to 383750

    Re: NBA球員工會對聯盟提告 (勞資戰爭率先發難)

    照資方的算法,去年總共虧3億(勞方認為算法有問題,且經營不善不能都由球員負責),但提的方案卻能省7億,看起來有4億的議價空間,也顯得誠意不足,先告再說

    Kanter蠻倒霉的,到美國先被大學禁賽,進NBA又要遇到封館,美國夢大受打擊


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